How to pitch talent for culture interview slots at The Independent

Alessia Horwich (00:08):

Welcome to On the Rox, a podcast from Roxhill Media that asks working journalists for their solutions to some of the problems that confront PRs daily. We know there’s not a one size fits all way of communicating with journalists, so we’re going direct to the writers in the newsroom to hear how they like to work with PRs and how to stand out in their inboxes. My name is Alessia Horwich. I’m a former Sunday Times journalist, now head of brand at Roxhill. Today, we’re going to be talking about how to pitch talent for the culture interview slots at The Independent with chief TV and film correspondent Jacob Stolworthy. Well, tell me, Jacob, how did you get into journalism? Because actually I’ve noticed because we had the interview with you last time and you had this kind of lifestyle add-on and I could kind of tell from the notes you weren’t super happy about it, but now you’re back in your good zone.

Jacob Stolworthy (00:54):

This is why I’m not an actor, Alessia. This why I’m not an actor. Yeah, I’m back in my lane now. I always wanted to write. Well, I actually wanted to make films, but then at uni, I realised actually my calling was maybe writing about film because I watch enough and I love talking about it. So I was like, “Well, that sounds like a fun profession.” So when I came out of uni, obviously the question is how do you even begin? And see, it’s become increasingly more impossible as the years have gone on. But my weird avenue was to work in PR for a while actually. So I worked in film PR, I worked at the BFI, which was just a great place to come out to. Day after graduation, got a little internship at the BFI. And then from then, it’s like you meet someone who then gets into your next one, which was at Organic, because they were doing all those premieres and stuff.

(01:43):

So I’d be on the red carpets, which was at the time just really exciting. And then that was an internship I was at Premier, which I think everyone who worked in film PR at some point has worked at Premier. God, I made friends for life there. I met my partner of now there. That was a great formative experience. But everyone knew I wanted to be a journalist. So the plan was when I was at Premier, I just would meet for coffees with people for advice, for tips and all of that. Got my kind of name on their radar in the hopes that if something ever arose, they’d be like, oh, this guy, let’s take a chance. All the while blogging or lucky. And lo and behold, I think someone at Premier, Sadari Cunningham, amazing, amazing lady, was like, “You should go for this.” And it was a Telegraph arts and entertainment internship.

(02:28):

I didn’t have a lot of experience like these people that they’ve got, they had NCTs and all sorts. And I was just out of, I just did a film studies course at uni, my film course at Kent Uni. And Martin Chilton, who was done at Telegraph, just took a chance at me. And it’s like one of those sliding doors moments because if he hadn’t, who knows where I’d be.

Alessia Horwich (02:45):

Does interviewing make you nervous?

Jacob Stolworthy (02:46):

It depends who it is. Actors, generally no.

Alessia Horwich (02:49):

Why not? I would absolutely hate. Well, I did. I used to do it for the travel desk. It was very low maintenance. Where have you been on holiday? But I hate it. Absolutely hated it because I’m so nervous about it. So why doesn’t it make you nervous?

Jacob Stolworthy (03:03):

So I think the thing with actors is I don’t necessarily care what they think of me. I just don’t. And also they’re acting and in some ways I’m not acting as an interview or whatever, but if I’m presenting something, I’m kind of tapping the same beat sometimes. So I kind of get where they’re coming from, a director or a musician, someone who’s come from their brain and they’ve crafted something. So if an actor had directed something, I’d probably be nervous chatting to them about that. It’s more about I want to engage with them about the thing that they’ve created in a way that they deem worthy of the thing that they’ve created. And it’s wholly dependent on whether I appreciate their work or something. It’s like Christopher Nolan, I adore him. When I was waiting outside the room to interview him, I was terrified. Older actors who I’ve got more respect for, sure.

(03:52):

But I’m more nervous because I don’t want. They could be grumpy, I guess. Yeah, that’s true. I hate the idea that someone is not enjoying the interview. I mean, I stand by the fact that I’m very much an interviewer who I still, even if they’re flagging and they’re tired, I like to bring out something that they’ve not experienced that day or whatever. But if they are just knackered and tired, I mean, I think to myself, I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t do it.

Alessia Horwich (04:14):

What makes a great interview?

Jacob Stolworthy (04:16):

Rapport is good. And I think it’s an interviewer’s job to build that rapport. A lot of interviews I see now is about the person interviewing. And look, no disrespect, sometimes you get two free minutes and people have their own followers now and they’re interviewing and they get the interview time because of who they are. And that for me, I’m never watching that thinking I’ve learned something about the person they’re interviewing.

Alessia Horwich (04:41):

That’s really interesting because one of my questions is how has the publicity circuit changed since you’ve been working?

Jacob Stolworthy (04:46):

Is it

Alessia Horwich (04:46):

Because you’ve been at the indie for nine years, I think? So

Jacob Stolworthy (04:48):

It will be, it’s 10 years now.

Alessia Horwich (04:49):

10 years. But I mean, what you are alluding to is these shows, I know exactly what you mean, like chicken shop date or whatever.

Jacob Stolworthy (04:56):

Yeah.

Alessia Horwich (04:56):

Yeah. How are you trying to make your slots different to that?

Jacob Stolworthy (04:59):

How do you make your mark in a short amount of time and with your own format? For me, I’m like, what separates me from the myriad people I see on TikTok or Instagram? And I can safely say I watch more films than they do. I know I do. I watch two a day if I can. Truly, I fit it into my day. On a Saturday, I’ll be up at 7:00 AM when everyone’s snoozing in or scrolling the phone and I’ve watched two French films by 11:00 AM. I just love it. I live and I breathe it. I’ve got lists on my phone. I’m stressed out. I’ll die before I watch more. And I don’t think a lot of people live and breathe it in the way that I do. So for me, it has to be about the film and the TV show at the centre of it.

(05:37):

If you are an expert on something, people are more willing to engage with you on it. So for me, I just want to be the expert. So I’ve started this thing called Screenworthy, which is basically hidden gem recommendations because I’m like, you can talk about films you’re blue in the face, but what’s different that people are going to come to you for? Because they’ve got their film reviewers, they’ve got whoever they go to. And for me, it’s just telling you about films you’ve not heard of that you should watch.

Alessia Horwich (06:00):

I think the PRs that I’m sort of thinking about, obviously if you are representing someone massive, you haven’t got a problem. You can go for the TikTokers and deny you. What about if you’ve got some lower level talent, someone who’s coming up and coming or maybe someone who’s maybe an older character actor who is really good but doesn’t get the press. Tell me a bit about how that works.

Jacob Stolworthy (06:23):

I mean, that’s how you come to me because that’s my wheelhouse. Literally. But truly, I think it is a thing of the Devil Wears Prada 2. We want to cover it. If we’re not going to get the big people, the PR should think, well, it’s a big film. They’re going to want to cover it. So I guess the idea is let’s know how we can cover it. Because we will sit down and we’ll flip ideas, but more often than not, we’ll think about it in-house. We’ll think, well, we can do a feature, an opinion piece. We can do a lifestyle angle and all of that. But if there is someone out there who’s a rising star in the film or a rising star behind the scenes of the film or who has. A good example of that would be Project Hail Mary came out and the puppeteer behind the rock puppet who is now suddenly in the Oscars race in a really unprecedented situation.

(07:11):

He’s eligible to be nominated for best supporting acts at a puppeteer. That would’ve been a great interview. But we wouldn’t have considered it. So it’s like because we hadn’t seen the film, I guess. But if someone had gone, “This guy is going to be the thing,” and it just lays it out, it gives us food for thought. And I think we have slots that fit the big people, which is the Saturday interview slot. We get some really good names. Then we have a rising star slot, which is great. And again, if you look back for over the years, this was founded by my colleague, Ellie Harrison. If you look back over the years, she really has interviewed people who are massive now. And it’s so cool to see because I think that’s the thing, isn’t it? You start it and the plan is you are interviewing the stars of tomorrow.

Alessia Horwich (07:57):

If someone’s going to pitch you for that slot,

Jacob Stolworthy (07:58):

Yeah

Alessia Horwich (07:59):

What’s the evidence that they can present to you that they are going to be a rising star?

Jacob Stolworthy (08:02):

A great question. I think it’s that thing of it’s very easy to track what I like and what I’ve been writing about and what I’ve been talking about. Target me based on what I’ve said I like. I’ve had that in the past. People have messaged me and they’ve clearly sent the email thinking I’ve got to send it to my list. And I’ve gone a bit. And they’re like, “Really? What?” And those ones usually, because they’re usually small cult figures, they usually can’t do really well because no one else is saying yes and you are the person interviewing them. So I think that’s the thing is just cultivate it to the journalist. Well, the department, but also specific journalists.

Alessia Horwich (08:37):

I guess one of the other things PRs need to know is who is your audience? Because I remember when you did an interview with my colleague, Saffron, and you said that the indie is the biggest, what is it, the biggest red culture section in the UK? Is that still true?

Jacob Stolworthy (08:49):

Yeah, as far as I know.

Alessia Horwich (08:51):

Who else is reading your stuff?

Jacob Stolworthy (08:52):

Yeah, we’re global now in a way that we weren’t as well. And we’ve got a US desk. So everything that we do in the UK will go out to the US. It’ll go on the US homepage. It’s different homepages, of course. Asia. We’re really global in a way. I get people commenting or I see people screenshot stories of mine that are in different languages and they were responding and I’m like, wow, the reach is kind of crazy. But yeah.

Alessia Horwich (09:22):

Tell me about what the sort of ideal conditions for an interview are for you. So if a PR’s come to you, pitch some talent, you’ve gone, yes, please. How do they need to prep them? And what do you want? How much time do you want from them? When do you want to be doing it in advance of whenever the thing they’re promoting is released, et cetera?

Jacob Stolworthy (09:37):

I’d say in that regard, we are pretty laid back because we’ve got good fast writers. Obviously, if the film is out on a Friday and we get an interview time on Thursday at 5:00 PM, it’s going to be hard. There’s a way we could maybe push it to the Saturday as long as it’s an understanding with the PRs that we’re not robocop. I did something recently though where we turned it around really quickly. It was like a multi-voice piece for The Pitt. I love that. Yeah, it’s so good. And I chatted to a bunch of the cast. It was amazing. But I had to write it. I had to do an interview and I had to write it that afternoon. And do you know I did it and it’s great.

Alessia Horwich (10:21):

In some ways it’s the best way to do that because you’ve done the interview, you fresh, you get back, bash, bash, bash and stuff. Yeah.

Jacob Stolworthy (10:25):

It’s a thrill. And then you see it on the page and it feels slightly bemusing. You’re like, “Wait, why I did that? That’s weird.” For me, the interview time, I mean, look, I know that time is short for those junkets, so we are willing to go a bit shorter. But if it’s like someone who’s just in town, they’re not really doing the film setup and you can sit in a room with someone. Or indeed you can do the film setup, but they’re only doing one or two. I did Laura Linney recently for a Prime Video series, but it was a very small number of journalists who were chatting to her. So it was such a laid back experience. It was amazing.

Alessia Horwich (10:58):

How long did you have with her? I

Jacob Stolworthy (10:59):

Ended up getting, do you know what? It’s 25, I believe, that got slashed to 20 in the moment. And now that is the worry.

Alessia Horwich (11:06):

But these are still short time periods that you turn yourself around.

Jacob Stolworthy (11:10):

I think you’re never going to get longer than half an hour perhaps. Whereas if you do the print and it’s in a hotel room and it’s out the junket setting, you could probably get. I don’t think it’s going to be like the do the school run with Kate Winslet. I don’t think it’s going to be like that for The Independent necessarily. Yes, for a magazine where you can kind of top up time. But I think the best you’re looking at is like 45 minutes to an hour.

Alessia Horwich (11:33):

Does the length of the interview you get correlate to the piece that you produce?

Jacob Stolworthy (11:37):

Do you know what? I don’t think it does.

Alessia Horwich (11:39):

Okay

Jacob Stolworthy (11:39):

This might be controversial because people might go, “Ah, so you can do it in 20 minutes.” But I truly think obviously you are more likely to get stuff that you wouldn’t get if you are in a 50-minute interview in an hour, obviously. But there’s nothing to say. I think good interviewers can still get great stuff.

Alessia Horwich (11:59):

Is there anything a PR can say to their talent to help you with that? Could they prep them about who you are and what you like or the kind of thing indie readers want to read about?

Jacob Stolworthy (12:10):

I find that when you’re speaking to the emerging talent and the rising stars, everyone’s a bit more on guard. And it might be nice for the PR to maybe show some stuff I’ve done before because I always do that. If I’m going to interview someone, I watch a fair few as part of my research to get a sense of what the person is like.

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Alessia Horwich (13:29):

Let’s go back to talking about video. So one of my questions actually was like, what’s the balance between print and well, digital and video for you? Are you really keen on video?

Jacob Stolworthy (13:36):

Yeah, I’ve really kind of pivoted away from the. It’s funny because 10 years, it’s a long time, you’re writing, writing, writing, and you’re exhausted well a little bit. And I do a lot of news reporting as well. So sometimes it’s just a lot to think about having to interview someone and then write. Where do I find my mojo again? And it was video. And I’ve wanted to do it for a while and people have been saying, “Do more, do more, do more.” But I’ve been in my head about it, to be honest, because I feel like I’m a bit older than I was. And a lot of people just have years on me of doing it. And then last year I kind of hit a wall mentally and emotionally as we all do every now and then. And I was like, “I need a change in a lot of areas.” And for me, it was trying giving the video a go more exclusively.

(14:25):

And then I enjoyed it. And then I had a chat with people at work and it’s become something that we now do. So if someone, say, Gene Hackman dies, I’m not necessarily going to be the one to write anything, but I’m going to be the one to jump on camera to do a piece. And it’s about Gene Hackman and his best roles and what he brought to cinema. And that becomes part of the package that we all contribute in as a team at The Independent. Yeah.

Alessia Horwich (14:50):

How does it work with talent?

Jacob Stolworthy (14:51):

Do you know what? Theoretically fine. I don’t think that’s the problem when it comes to talent. I think you could go with everyone, two minutes with Tom Hanks, fine, fine, fine. But we are not going to do that. We’re going to say, we’d like maybe 10 minutes with Tom Hanks. We’d probably have more success rate if we lowered a time. But in terms of our discussions, and we’ve actually gone around and if anyone wants to get in touch to say, meet with us about this, it’s great. We’ve spoken to a lot of PR teams to let them know where we are on this front. We worry it’s a bit confusing. Do they want print? Do they want video? Who’s going to do it? Da, da, da. So we’ve got me, we’ve got one of my colleagues, and we sit down, we look at what’s coming up.

(15:32):

And then I go, let me know who you’re happy for me. Cause print will be first and foremost because we’ve got slots to fill. Or someone will come to us and I’ll be like, “What about them?” And they’re like, “Yeah, fine.” It really is like, it’s just a conversation.

Alessia Horwich (15:43):

What would you say to a PR who can’t choose between doing video with you or doing something with a TikTok person or whatever? Why is it better to go with The Indie?

Jacob Stolworthy (15:51):

Personally, I think it’s better to go with me because I’m an expert on the subject and I’m not trying to do the gotcha journalism. I’m trying to just. I just want to know about the experience of working with Clint Eastwood or whatever. And we’ve got proof in the pudding. This interview I do with Laura Linney, it’s called Life in Pictures. And it’s a new series that we launched with Laura Linney. And it was like, This Is Your Life. I presented her with a photo album and it had eight photos from different points of her career. Some were photos from film, some were red carpet photos. One was Emmy Knight when she won. And it just basically, the idea was just to basically evoke an anecdote from her that might be nice or whatever.

Alessia Horwich (16:32):

Is that a regular thing that you do?

Jacob Stolworthy (16:34):

Well here’s the thing, which we’re hoping for it to be.

Alessia Horwich (16:37):

Right okay. But

Jacob Stolworthy (16:37):

Because we got Laura Linney and it did really well. So this thing we did on Clint Eastwood, this story that she gave in Clint Eastwood became the most shared Instagram clip on The Independence Instagram in ever. A million shares. It was insane. And it just proved that there’s an audience for these fun Hollywood stories that aren’t about her private life. It’s very Reddity. It’s very kind of Reddit nerdy. I have the love of film and the knowledge of what this person’s been in. I can do my research and know that Lauren’s web Clint Eastwood, but I don’t need to do that. Whereas I think a lot of people like TikTokers, all I’ll say is it’s about the instant likes or whatever. It’s not about the engagement. It’s about, I think these people, they’ve watched what they’ve watched. They know what they know, but there’s not really a willingness to go deeper back.

(17:32):

It’s more about what’s out now, what’s coming out tomorrow, da, da, da. So that would be my advice. Come to the independent for that reason because we on the desk, we just love film and TV and music. We live and breathe it. And I think that’s what separates us.

Alessia Horwich (17:48):

I’ve got to ask you about, so one thing that often PRs are working with TV actors, people, authors and things as brands, as brand spokespeople, or someone’s championing an issue for a charity or something like that. How does that work for you guys? Does it work at all? Can you do brand mentions? How do you navigate that?

Jacob Stolworthy (18:07):

I think it’s one of those things where it’s like case by case perhaps. I won’t say that we do this a lot. We don’t. But in terms of charities and things like that, there is definitely, if there’s a story, a topical news line or bolstering that news article or writing a spinoff feature with commentary from an expert or a charity is absolutely brilliant. I think more and more now we’re encouraged to not just write the story and the quotes and link back to a few old stories, but to bolster the piece with contact charities or I don’t know, like crisis PR experts in terms of Blake Livey and Justin. Things like that for sure. Brands, I think the thing that we’re maybe a bit ambivalent about is like, oh, blah, blah, spoke in relation to Capri Sun. And it’s like, that’s a bit weird. Do you know what I mean?

(19:02):

It’s just a bit strange. I can’t say that the brand side of things, we probably won’t write a new story even based off that. But in terms of experts, people do email me and they go, “I saw you wrote this. Could we?” And I’m like, “That’s a great email to receive. I wouldn’t have even thought to contact you. And now you’re letting me know that there’s a way of making this story better or better informed. Thank you. That’s good PR.”

Alessia Horwich (19:34):

I mean, this sort of links to, you mentioned before extended news pieces are another way for talent to get coverage. How do they work?

Jacob Stolworthy (19:41):

I think this is a great way if you’re open to the idea of getting some time, because they will literally be. It won’t read like a feature, but it won’t read like a news story. It’s like a mini feature/extended news story. Sits somewhere in the middle. We’ve had a few people who go, “Can you have an interview this person?” And it’s like, “Well, no, but we could do a. They’re in a buzzy TV show, so we could do a news story, which basically is an interview with the person, but we package a news story.

Alessia Horwich (20:13):

So it’s like a, this is a buzzy TV show that’s going on and you should know about, but actually a lot of this stuff is coming from the star.

Jacob Stolworthy (20:20):

Yeah. Or it could be you chat to the person because that they’re in this show, but you chat to them like you would an interview and they could give a really striking comment about something that’s in the news. Maybe like Leslie Manville talking about taking photos at the end of the plays or whatever recently. And they could give a good quote about that. And then you could just be like, “Severance star wades into the…” And you present it like a news story, but within the piece you mention what they’re in and stuff. So it’s kind of sold as a news story and not necessarily an interview. At the end of the day, we need people to read it and we want people to read it and you want people to read it. So it’s like, I’m telling you, this is how it will get read.

(20:56):

Give or take or leave it.

Alessia Horwich (20:57):

So if a PR has something like that, could they email you and go, “Well, I’ve got this talent. They think this about this thing. How about an interview?” Would that work or is that too bold?

Jacob Stolworthy (21:07):

That’s kind of –

Alessia Horwich (21:09):

Or too engineered?

Jacob Stolworthy (21:10):

That feels quite engineered. Don’t hate it. But it could be quite random because it’s like, “Well, why do I care what this guy’s saying in it? It more has to happen organically from me almost. I don’t know. Do you know what I mean? I don’t –

Alessia Horwich (21:24):

What’s the best scenario for that then?

Jacob Stolworthy (21:26):

I guess it’s this person is in severance. Say severance is just out and it’s become a thing and it’s becoming. Or Baby Reindeer are a good example. And they’re like a smaller role, but a pivotal role. You can’t just be like the guy who’s got one line. A role, but maybe one episode, but in a memorable appearance. And it’s like, do you want to chat to them? Whatever. And I guess you would then be chatting to them about the runaway success of a show that they’re in and they didn’t expect it. And then I guess through the interview time, because you’re not going to have longer than 20 minutes, but you’re not just going to talk about the show for 20 minutes. And then you ask and then suddenly they come out with an absolute pearl. You’re like, great, I can headline on this. And suddenly you can say Baby Reindeer actor.

(22:09):

And then you’re hitting your SEO beats and it probably shoots the top of Google and people will read it. And it’s like that’s a good way of getting coverage for someone who probably wouldn’t get coverage otherwise.

Jacob Stolworthy (22:23):

It’s about catering it to what’s in the zeitgeist, I guess. Or again, what we on the desk like. I wouldn’t necessarily ask them something that was completely relevant to what they were in or their background having done the research. I wouldn’t be like, “So let’s talk about the war with some…” Do you know what I mean? I wouldn’t be going in for that unless they were in something that was heavily inspired by what was in the news. At which point you’d hope they’d be a little bit trained. No, not trained, but have a discussion with someone.

(22:57):

Yeah, for me, it’s not necessarily a case. The challenge is getting us to say yes to the interview. When we said yes to the interview, we’ll be running the piece. Don’t worry about saying anything newsworthy, I would say. That will just come. But getting our attention, I think is a case of just letting us know why you think we should interview it. And the other thing is they’re in this show or they’re going to be in this film and it’s going to be a thing. And it’s like, ah, thinking down the line there. If someone’s in the Odyssey and they’re not really known yet, but they’re going to be known. That’s pretty cool.

Alessia Horwich (23:30):

Other quick things like what’s in the subject line? What’s in the main body? We’ve got to whiz through it. And when do you want pitches to land in your inbox?

Jacob Stolworthy (23:38):

Pitches whenever. I think earlier the better, to be honest, so we can get the ball rolling.

Alessia Horwich (23:42):

What does that even mean though? Earlier the better? What’s the ideal lead time?

Jacob Stolworthy (23:46):

We don’t go by lead times because there’s not a day where we’re like, “We need it in right now.” We can kind of work as and when is needed. So the moment you hear about it, if you think it’s right for us, just hit us up. If it’s released the next day, just be aware that it’s not going to go live the next day.

Alessia Horwich (24:05):

Yeah

Jacob Stolworthy (24:05):

If it’s a news article and it’s a news piece, there’s no reason why it can’t be. But if it’s a feature, we might have had a busy week or whatever. So it might just be amenable to the deadline. But for us, I don’t think that’s necessarily a problem, the lead time thing. Subject line is a good one. I can tell you what not to do. Maybe that’s easier. I don’t like the good one for you? I just don’t see that. Buzzwords are good. Don’t put the name of the person if I’m not going to know the name of the person. Yeah, I think that’s a good piece of advice.

Alessia Horwich (24:33):

And are there any bits that PRs often miss out in a pitch that they should really include?

Jacob Stolworthy (24:39):

Well, a lot of time people put it on us about how long do you want? And I just worry sometimes that when we give all the information, we are giving information that is just immediately ruling us out. And I understand that some people then have to go to reps and have to go to studios and have to go to whoever because they don’t know themselves. But it would be nice to have an element of being realistic because otherwise it takes time for us to put together a nomination kind of deck, especially when we really want someone and we put a lot of time in it and then they come back and go, “Ah, time is actually limited.” It would’ve been nice to know that time might be limited earlier. And I know you’re hoping it wouldn’t be, but let’s just have an element of being realistic here.

(25:17):

Maybe don’t ask for 20 minutes. Maybe ask for seven minutes or eight minutes for film, whatever. Yeah, just an element of upfront nature would be good for all, I think.

Alessia Horwich (25:29):

What are your three essential bits of advice for PR who’s trying to pitch talent for one of the indie slots?

Jacob Stolworthy (25:34):

Cultivate it to not just the outlet, but if you can, the journalists you have in mind. Just do a bit of research maybe on what people are enjoying on the desk, what we’ve written. Just look at the page, that’s number one. Number two, I would say the good one is be amenable to your expectations might have to be retrofitted to what we can offer. Don’t be like, “This needs to be an interview or nothing because it could be that we can do something, but it just won’t necessarily be the big, nice slot that you are hoping for. That doesn’t mean that we can’t get good coverage and more eyes on the piece and AKA more eyes on not just your client, but the piece of thing they’re promoting.” And then I would just say, “Do you know what? Phone call is sometimes good because we’re busy.” Or

Alessia Horwich (26:26):

When pitching.

Jacob Stolworthy (26:27):

Yeah, maybe not necessarily straight away. I get that’s the thing that journalists do a lot. And having worked in PR, I know how annoying this is. And I try my best and fail a lot at giving nos when it’s a no. A quick way of getting that no would be maybe calling the person. I know a lot of journalists don’t like their numbers being out there, but a lot of people don’t mind it. And sometimes it’s easier just it’s a busy news day and then you forgot the email and then you’re da, da, da, da. Because we are writing six stories a day as well on top of having to organise all this stuff. So it is a lot and things in your head you’ve replied, but you haven’t. It’s a bit like WhatsApp, isn’t it? So I would say that could be a good way of getting a no, but also getting a yes.

(27:06):

The amount of times I’m like, “Oh my God, this email, I didn’t reply and the nomination time has passed. We’ve lost the opportunity.” And more often than not, it’s fine. But sometimes you’re like, “I should have replied and I didn’t.” And I was like, “I’ll do it later.” And I didn’t get around to it. So just bear in mind that we’re busy and maybe a call could help.