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Alessia Horwich (00:08):
Welcome to On The Rox, a podcast from Roxhill Media that asks some of the best journalists in the UK for their solutions to the kind of dilemmas that confront PRS daily. We know that there’s not a one size fits all way of communicating with journalists, so we are going direct to the writers in the newsroom to hear how they like to work with prs and how to stand out in their inboxes. My name is Alessia Horwich. I’m a former Sunday Times journalist, now the brand director at Roxhill. Today we’re going to be talking about how to pitch corporate comm stories to ITV Breakfast News with Sam Rix a freelance producer on Good Morning Britain. Hi Sam. It’s lovely to see you again. Hi. Yeah, we have talked at length about your roles and things, but new podcast audience. So let’s talk a little bit about you. What is your job and how long have you been doing it and how did you get into it?
Sam Rix (00:55):
So I’m a, well, a broadcast journalist and a senior news producer, news editor for, I mainly work for ITV News on freelance and Good Morning Britain, but I’ve worked for BBC Sky, I started my career Channel five news. So I’ve kind of worked for everybody, really,
Alessia Horwich (01:10):
Which is the best one
Sam Rix (01:11):
They’re all very different. I mean, I think I’ve worked at ITV for so long for either News and Good Morning Britain. I think that’s kind of where my natural, I suppose my heart lies with them because I’ve worked for them for so long.
Alessia Horwich (01:22):
What’s your favourite thing about doing TV news
Sam Rix (01:25):
When a big story breaks? There’s nothing like it when you’re in that newsroom and that big story breaks and you fly out the door to that story and you really feel a part of it. I’m quite kind of inquisitive by nature, so I love chatting to people, helping people tell their stories, finding that person who’s going to make that story really interesting. And also when you do big events like royal weddings or things like that, it’s quite privileged. You do feel it’s really nice to be a part of the elections and things like that.
Alessia Horwich (01:52):
Make your little contribution to it. Yes. Yeah, what you just said about helping people tell their stories is interesting because I think that’s probably one of the main differences between print and telly or radio. You’ve got to have people who are telling a story on tv, right?
Sam Rix (02:03):
Yes, you have. And I think that’s lots of times we’ll get a pitch from a PR company or a charity and it’ll be a really, really good story with quite a good top line, really good figures, but you can’t tell that story. So yeah, it might be a really good print story, but you’ve got to think visually, how am I going to tell this story? Who’s the voice that’s going to tell this story? What’s the backdrop that can tell this story to, so there was an example, actually, there was a story the other week that it was the government were doing a campaign to stop children being exploited by AI. And it was a really interesting story, but how do you tell that visually because you need a teenager who’s has experienced that, which is very hard to find, and you’ve obviously got duty of care issues children under the age of minors. And also where do you tell that story from visually? What’s the backdrop to tell it to? So you’ve always got to think visually of how you tell a story, and that’s the main difference.
Alessia Horwich (03:00):
Did you guys pick it up? How did you do it?
Sam Rix (03:01):
We didn’t. We actually did it online in the end.
Alessia Horwich (03:04):
Okay. Gosh. So there are stories that just don’t work.
Sam Rix (03:06):
Yes, that would be the main thing I would say to anybody that when you’re thinking of pitching a story to tv, think about who’s going to tell that story. You don’t want a spokesperson, you want the person with lived experience.
Alessia Horwich (03:17):
Is that really important that it’s a human story?
Sam Rix (03:19):
Yes. I think that’s the thing with anything, you need the person to tell that story, to show those figures, to talk about their experience of it.
Alessia Horwich (03:26):
Yeah. This morning we are talking about pitching corporate comms stories to Good Morning Britain, and that’s really difficult, isn’t it, to find a human story from a corporate comm story. I mean, how does that work for you? Have you got a couple of examples of things where it’s come together in this kind of way?
Sam Rix (03:41):
Well, I think as you say, it’s very difficult with corporate comms because you always have to have a editorial justification for why you get them on Air. Sheba, the pet food people did, they sponsored Ellie Simmonds, Paralympic swimmer to do some conservation. She went with a charity and it was conservation work for coal reef, and she came back with some amazing footage. So editorially we could get her on because she had a vested interest in, obviously she’d done a lot of conservation work. She does wild swimming. So she had a sort of vested interest in why she wanted to promote protect and coral reef. So it’s always thinking about what’s your news value behind your product, what’s your news value behind the sort of communication message that you want to show?
Alessia Horwich (04:31):
What was the link between the cat food and
Sam Rix (04:34):
I think they just sponsored the charity to go and do it.
Alessia Horwich (04:37):
Right. Okay.
Sam Rix (04:38):
So actually
Alessia Horwich (04:39):
That’s really thinking outside the box you are working on Good Morning Britain. When you kind of get into the office, how are you going about choosing the stories? What are the kind of stories that make the cut? How many pitches actually make it into the show each day for the ones that come into your inbox?
Sam Rix (04:55):
I mean, it really depends. There’s no specific amount. It would just very much depend on what’s going on in the news agenda that day and what you might be able to move on the next day. And then you’ll be looking around that and saying, oh, that’s quite a nice human interest story. Or there’s the kind of topic of the week or the kind of watercooler moment that everyone’s chatting about. So it’s that kind of thing that then you might say, well, should we have a guest on this or should we have a guest on that? But there’s no sort of specific line I would say, on how many pitches we take. It really just depends on what the agenda is for the day.
Alessia Horwich (05:29):
So you’re coming into the office and you are working on the following day, right?
Sam Rix (05:33):
Yes, yes.
Alessia Horwich (05:34):
Yeah. What are the kind of stories that are more appropriate for breakfast TV as opposed to late through the day?
Sam Rix (05:40):
Well, I think very much mean if you look at the audience very much for Good Morning Britain tends to be women, generally kind a slightly older demographic, a slightly more, I would say, tabloid audience. So I think you sort of lead to look at stories that would be appeal to that audience. So cost of living story is always very popular. Things like school uniforms, school dinners, royals, the campaigner, the person who sort of fought the system and won. So the post office scandal was obviously those kind of guests. And then the human interest story, the person who’s defied all the odds, the amazing child, I think a lot of the time as well, it is sort of balancing, it’s kind of light and shade. If you’ve got a lot of very heavy news stories, you sometimes want that more human interest, quite slightly quirkier story to help with the balance.
Alessia Horwich (06:33):
How much of that balance comes to you from PRs and how much do you guys generate yourself, do you think?
Sam Rix (06:38):
It’s wasting everyone’s time. Exactly. A great tool, but do it with an intention I think is the key to it.
Alessia Horwich (07:06):
Could a PR pitch a debate to you theme, or is that more the kind of thing you guys decide
Sam Rix (07:10):
To take? More than we decide? Yeah, it’s something more that we decide, yeah,
Alessia Horwich (07:12):
Case studies really important for you. How should they be pitched to you and what are the necessary elements
Sam Rix (07:17):
For that? I think one thing that I’ve often found with PR companies is that they don’t understand the timings of how television works. So if you want to get somebody on the sofa, you’ve got to be willing for them to be sort of up early and there.
Alessia Horwich (07:33):
That seems quite straightforward to me.
Sam Rix (07:34):
Well, no, but you wouldn’t be surprised. I thought that, but sometimes people will say, well no, they can’t do it tomorrow, but they can do it on Thursday. And they’re like, well, the story is tomorrow. Yeah. And having somebody who’s, as I said, who’s sort of eloquent, who’s going to really, really put that story across, who’s going to tell it really, really well, who can probably tell it better than, as I said before, a spokesperson? What is it that would qualify them to tell it better is the fact that
Alessia Horwich (07:57):
They’ve lived it.
Sam Rix (07:58):
Yes, yes. Yeah.
Alessia Horwich (07:59):
What about spokespeople? What other kind of spokespeople that do work?
Sam Rix (08:02):
Somebody who’s prepared to be quite outspoken, give their opinions, say it how it is? Yeah, somebody who’s got, I think a personality who’s perhaps got sort of a bit of a social media presence as well.
Alessia Horwich (08:17):
Is that important?
Sam Rix (08:18):
Yes. Yes. And I think somebody who is just, who’s a bit of a character and is sort of willing to put themselves out there. Really.
Alessia Horwich (08:24):
Yeah. Do you get increasingly frustrated with people who are too media trained? Well spokespeople who are too media trained
Sam Rix (08:29):
I think it’s okay for if you’re doing a sort of shorter piece kind of soundbite. Because that’s quite good, because then that’s easier in an edit. But yeah, I think sometimes when you’re getting people who are live, it’s nice to be a bit more natural and just sort of go with the flow a little bit more.
Alessia Horwich (08:47):
Yeah. Do you think that’s applicable for all TV programmes or is that a specific thing for breakfast?
Sam Rix (08:51):
Yeah, I think it is slightly different. I mean, I think if you are on the Today programme and you are going to be, I think it’s very much depending on what you want to talk about as well. And obviously if you want to defend your brand, then you need to know how to do it. And so you probably do need to be more media trained.
Alessia Horwich (09:08):
One of the things that our PRs are often dealing with is brand stories.
Sam Rix (09:11):
Yes.
Alessia Horwich (09:12):
So how do you approach brand stories? You don’t want to do plugs for things necessarily. We can’t, no. So how’s the best way to get it work? I mean, you’ve talked about the Sheba story, but
Sam Rix (09:22):
Yeah. Yes. Basically we won’t touch it unless it’s got an editorial value. Really. It’s as simple as that.
Alessia Horwich (09:28):
So what does that mean?
Sam Rix (09:29):
Well, it’s got to be something that is, I suppose there is an editorial justification for why we’re doing it. When you go back to the Sheba and Ellie Simmonds story, the editorial justification was something that Ellie Simmonds is very interested in, knows a lot about. That’s why she was on to talk about it. But we can’t just have somebody saying, this is my brand. I want to promote it and advertising it with
Alessia Horwich (09:52):
The Ellie Simmonds thing, if she hadn’t had that interest in conservation, would that have been a bit of a stretch for you? Yes. Just a celeb that’s putting their name to something? Yes,
Sam Rix (10:02):
That’s the thing, yes. Or the other way around it is to, if you’ve got a good celebrity who is sort of interest at the moment, say you had a celebrity who’d been in celebrity traitors, so they might get on, there’d be one question on the sort of thing that they want to promote, and then it’d be much more because the reason they want them on is they want them to talk about celebrity traitors. So it’s sort of thinking laterally about what else can they talk about and what else makes them interesting.
Alessia Horwich (10:30):
I guess that’s also applicable for non-celebrities in a way. If somebody is willing to talk about one issue that’s in the news and then they get to talk a little bit about something else that they’re passionate about, is that the sort of the trade off?
Sam Rix (10:41):
Yes. Yes. They’re not always going to be able to talk about what they’re on for. As I said, it’d be one or two questions and then it’s a much broader blush really about talking about other things.
Alessia Horwich (10:52):
When it comes down to hard news versus human interest, what’s the kind of balance in the programme?
Sam Rix (10:58):
Hard news is always going to be lead story and the story of the week. And then as I said before, it is you need the balance. So that’s why on the evening news and news at 10, they always have an and finally, which is the sort of, especially if you’ve had a diet, very heavy news, you need the sort of lightness. It really depends. But I think Good Morning Britain is sort of put into sort of chunks as well.
Alessia Horwich (11:22):
So can you tell us about those chunks? I mean, often we talk to radio journalists and their programmes are very much divided up into slots. Is that the way that you guys do it.
Sam Rix (11:30):
Yes. It’s the same there. Yeah. So they have the news panel on in the morning, which is going through all the papers. Then they’ll have more of a sort of newsy guest and then they’re sort of 8 10 guest is the sort of human interest story or the new story of the week, but with the human side to it.
Alessia Horwich (11:46):
And is it good to sort of outline that in the pitch and say, this would be a good guess for this slot?
Sam Rix (11:52):
No, because I think that then we would kind of decide that or somebody might say, oh, well actually that might work there, or that sort of line in the press release. We could make that bit work there.
Alessia Horwich (12:03):
Okay. So I mean does the PR really need to worry about that then? They just need to pitch a good story.
Sam Rix (12:08):
They just need to pitch a good story. Yeah
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Alessia Horwich (13:07):
How about exclusives and surveys and embargoes? Are you looking for these things?
Sam Rix (13:12):
Yes, we are, but I think they have to kind of be something that was not really heard before. So we will take embargoes exclusives. Yes. Gum Britain do quite a lot actually, especially with charities, new figures out things like that. Surveys we do do, but has to be a big sample size.
Alessia Horwich (13:35):
How big?
Sam Rix (13:36):
Well over 2000 ideally. Really. And I think there’s a slight worry little bit about sometimes surveys being a bit self-selecting because obviously sometimes the people you are asking might just be members of a certain organisation. So is that really reflective of what everybody else thinks? So yes, we do take them. But the other thing is any sort of data or if you’re given exclusives, and once again this might sound that it’s obvious, but make sure that all your figures are new because so many times they’re not. So sometimes I find that PR companies will give you a story, say, or exclusive figures, and then you start looking into the figures and they’ll go, oh no, there’s figures from, well from a year ago, but we’ve got this new line to go with them. And then that basically just says we can’t run them because they’re not new figures. So then it becomes an old story.
Alessia Horwich (14:21):
And is that frustrating? That
Sam Rix (14:23):
Very frustrating, yeah.
Alessia Horwich (14:25):
What kind of pace are you guys working at? What times does the show run till and then what’s the length of your working day?
Sam Rix (14:32):
So the show starts at six, but if you are working the day before, so as a news editor looking ahead to the next day, I would start at eight in the morning and then do my handover at eight at night, but it never is eight at night. It’s always pushing on.
Alessia Horwich (14:46):
That’s no joke.
Sam Rix (14:47):
No. And you are working to speed that stories coming in all the time, things are changing so you don’t have a lot of time to sit and read very crafted pitches.
Alessia Horwich (14:58):
Does that mean there’s more onus on the PR to just do it really well or it’s less important because you’ll spot the story?
Sam Rix (15:04):
No, I think do it really well. I would say kind of think like a journalist and just say, right, this is your attention span because you will literally read the top line and go, that’s interesting. And sometimes you’ll get a pitch and it’s sort of four paragraphs before you even know what the story is. I would advise that, almost try and write it like you just with a paragraph just so really, really think what the two top lines are because that’s how we have to go in and pitch it. We’ve got to say in two or three lines very succinctly what that story is. So if you can’t almost do it in a paragraph,
Alessia Horwich (15:40):
Then how are you going to do it?
Sam Rix (15:41):
Yes. Yeah
Alessia Horwich (15:42):
How does that work, that pitching process? So you come in at eight, you’re looking at the news, you’re looking at what’s going on. Yes. Do you have an editorial meeting?
Sam Rix (15:48):
Yes. So we have an editorial meeting at 10. So by that time there’s a planning team that they’ve set stuff up the day before, which I then hand over. You’ll go through the papers, you’ll listen to the radio, see what else is around that day’s news agenda, what else is perhaps coming up? There might be something that’s happening later that evening at sort of five, six o’clock that they’ll then push into the next day. So yeah, so you are constantly juggling lots of different sources, demands and then somebody will come in and say, oh, I heard so-and-so this today programme, they’re really good. Should we be bidding for them? So yes, you are juggling with a lot of demands.
Alessia Horwich (16:25):
So you are doing that through the afternoon and then you’re lining up all of the people and then the show runs in the morning and then you’re on to the next day already.
Sam Rix (16:32):
Yes, yes.
Alessia Horwich (16:33):
Lead times. When you wanting, considering that kind of time scale, when are you wanting prs to approach you with stories? Is it still just the day before or
Sam Rix (16:42):
Yes
Alessia Horwich (16:42):
Slot things in advance?
Sam Rix (16:44):
No, so I suppose it depends. I mean it depends on how big a story it is, but if you’ve got something that you think, oh, this could be really, really good, it’s probably worth just dropping the planning team an email, I dunno, like a month before saying I’ve just put this date in your diary. Or just a sort of heads up, I’ve got a really good story coming out. I can offer A, B, C, and D. Keep it really, really succinct. And then follow it up perhaps a week beforehand.
Alessia Horwich (17:10):
With the planning team still.
Sam Rix (17:11):
Yes. Yes.
Alessia Horwich (17:12):
So you don’t want to be hearing about stuff that’s really far advanced, that’s all planning,
Sam Rix (17:15):
Yes. But then if you’ve got something that’s the next day, then you would pitch that to the next day team.
Alessia Horwich (17:21):
You did mention it and we’ve talked about embargoes, but in terms of the timings of embargoes, how did they work best for you?
Sam Rix (17:28):
Really a midnight embargo or for breakfast news is 6:00 AM embargo, obviously then that means it can run first.
Alessia Horwich (17:34):
Is that nice?
Sam Rix (17:34):
Yes
Alessia Horwich (17:35):
So you guys get to break the story effectively?
Sam Rix (17:36):
Yes. Yes. So sometimes, yeah.
Alessia Horwich (17:38):
If a PR really wanted you guys to pick up a story, is giving it a 6am embargo going to be really favourable for you? Is that going to sway your decision? If it’s a good story,
Sam Rix (17:45):
Yes, potentially yes. So if you can sort of say, oh yeah, we can get this out first and it will run first on us, then that’s quite nice.
Alessia Horwich (17:52):
Yeah. Another big part of corporate comms is doing reactive comment for when news break. So how does that work best for you and how would you PRs to be pitching their comment to you?
Sam Rix (18:01):
I mean, a lot of people do. You’ll get that the email coming through is saying in reaction to this story. One of the things I find is I’ve often had PRs where they’ll pitch a good Morning Britain when you are already off air. And it’s like, well, they’re not going to comment on it tomorrow. That story is today. So it’s just thinking, well, okay, that’s happening tomorrow. I’ve got a great chief executive who could comment on this. So I’ll email the planning desk and say, they’re really good. I could put them forward for this. And you could interview them in their factory or you could interview them here.
Alessia Horwich (18:33):
Okay, so you’ve got to do it the day before. Do you have to give
Sam Rix (18:35):
Obviously, but then if something’s breaking then you can ring the news desk or send an email out saying, I’ve got this person to respond.
Alessia Horwich (18:42):
If you were doing it the day of, do you need to get any sort of idea of what they’re going to say?
Sam Rix (18:48):
Yes.
Alessia Horwich (18:48):
Yes. So how do you do that? Just sum it up in a quick paragraph.
Sam Rix (18:50):
Yeah, so literally I would say, I mean that’s the other thing. Sometimes people will send you a whole kind of ream of almost like a sort of massive bio and you haven’t got time. So literally you could say X says absolute shocking, this needs to be done. So it’s quite three or four bullet points, and then that gives a chance to respond. We haven’t got time to read through a whole three or four paragraphs and a press release and a you know
Alessia Horwich (19:15):
Oh, yeah,
Sam Rix (19:15):
Yeah.
Alessia Horwich (19:16):
I assume though that in those bullets they have to give some substance what they’re going tos ay. They can’t just be like, Oh, this is terrible.
Sam Rix (19:20):
No, no. But a substance of what they would like to see and what they’re calling for and their reaction. And then perhaps a press release to follow. But I think just a short paragraph.
Alessia Horwich (19:30):
And do they need to also say where you could do the interview? Yes. Is it helpful to say, oh, they’ve appeared on this programme before, or anything that gives you an indication of that they might be quite good at forecast?
Sam Rix (19:39):
Yes, yes. That’s really useful as well.
Alessia Horwich (19:41):
Sam, you’ve been working on Good Morning Britain for quite a while now. How is it different from other breakfast news programmes? What are they aiming to do and how do they look at the stories in a different way to say BBC breakfast?
Sam Rix (19:52):
I mean, sometimes they are quite similar to BBC breakfast and we’re often sort of looking for the same sort of stories. I think actually somebody summed it up really well the other day said it’s almost you want that guest that makes somebody almost miss their bus because they’re so glued to what they’re watching. So as I said, that’s that big human interest story. It’s the thing that makes you cry. It’s the thing that makes you laugh, the story that everybody wants to hear.
Alessia Horwich (20:19):
I mean, throughout this chat, you’ve been talking much more about humans and people than news and stories.
Sam Rix (20:27):
Yes
Alessia Horwich (20:27):
So I think that’s clear. The emphasis is you’ve really got to find that human angle to your story, especially from a corporate comms point of view. You’ve really got to find that person.
Sam Rix (20:33):
Oh, totally. I mean, that’s the thing. You can’t just do a corporate story without it having, as I said, you can’t just advertise a brand. You’ve got to think how does that brand fit in and how is that relevant? Sam, if
Alessia Horwich (20:46):
You were telling a PR who’s trying to pitch to you for the first time, what are the three main takeaways from our chat that you would want them to focus on?
Sam Rix (20:54):
I would want them to give me UpToDate facts and figures. The other thing I would always say is don’t promise what you can’t deliver, which happens a lot.
Alessia Horwich (21:03):
What does that mean? How do people not deliver?
Sam Rix (21:05):
Well, many times we’ve been left with, especially on Good Morning Britain, where you’ve been in a situation where somebody has said, a PR company said, oh, we’ve got somebody like Deborah Meaden back in his campaign, or Cameron or someone like that. So you go, brilliant. Are they available for an interview? Yes. And then you get to seven o’clock in the evening and you realise never, they’ve sort of put their name to it in some shape or form, or they’ve commented somewhere on social media, but they’re not really involved with the campaign. And that’s just really frustrating. Then that means at seven o’clock at night, you’re left with a big hole in your programme. And also if something’s not timely, then wait until you’ve got all your elements. Don’t pitch it too early. If it’s something that can kind run at any time, then make sure you’ve got everything in the bag,
Alessia Horwich (21:48):
One package delivered to you ready to go.
Sam Rix (21:50):
Yes, and as I said, just think the people who can tell that story spokespeople or a good case study.
Alessia Horwich (21:56):
What are the things that can be a bit more flexible? What are the things that the PR can kind of not get quite right, but still get it over the line?
Sam Rix (22:05):
If it’s not quite right and you need an extra week, then that’s fine. We would rather that it was kind of all properly put together rather than a sort of scribbling around at the last minute for things.
Alessia Horwich (22:15):
So maybe you would get something that’s a good story, but it’s not quite come together and you would put that at the back of your mind and think, right, and then they could email you the following week and be like, it’s ready to rock.
Sam Rix (22:24):
You might be, yes. Or it might be that we might say, well, actually can’t take that at the moment, but in three weeks time there’s a big, I dunno, there’s a big conference on knife climb or there’s something that you could peg it to more. I think being flexible and adaptable to how could make it work in a sort of news value way.
Alessia Horwich (22:43):
Brilliant. Sam, thank you so much for all of your time today. It’s been really helpful advice.
